CJ Bruce is the Founder and CEO of The Missing Ingredient, a marketing agency dedicated to helping food and beverage brands grow through performance marketing, brand building, influencer partnerships, and AI-driven strategies. Under his leadership, The Missing Ingredient has helped brands 5x their sales over five years, and CJ himself is recognized for building marketing systems that drive measurable results and long-term impact. With a background in film, political science, and hands-on culinary experience, CJ brings a unique, creative perspective to food and beverage marketing.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [01:38] The top three marketing mistakes food brands make
- [04:47] CJ Bruce talks about the most common questions brands ask before launching marketing campaigns
- [07:46] Avoiding the biggest product launch blunders with smart early planning
- [13:02] The secret to building long-term, profitable influencer partnerships
- [15:41] How digital marketing became more competitive and expensive over time
- [20:08] The minimum effective marketing budget brands need to see real, measurable results
In this episode…
Food and beverage brands often chase every marketing tactic at once — ads, influencers, email, social — hoping something will stick. But in a crowded digital landscape, what actually moves the needle for brands trying to scale?
According to CJ Bruce, a marketing strategist who works closely with growing food and beverage brands, the biggest mistake is trying to do everything at once instead of building marketing in layers. He explains that brands often spread themselves too thin across channels when they would be better off focusing on the platforms where their audience already spends time and where their team can consistently create content.
In this episode of The Missing Ingredient, CJ Bruce is interviewed by Chad Franzen of Rise25 to discuss proven marketing strategies for scaling food and beverage brands. He explains why spreading marketing across too many channels hurts growth, how brands should balance awareness and conversion strategies, and how to approach influencer partnerships for stronger engagement. CJ also shares advice on planning effective product launches and avoiding common timing mistakes.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Quotable Moments:
- “One of the most common mistakes that we see is trying to do too much at once.”
- “You feel like you need to do paid media and email and influencers all at the same time.”
- “If you’re not consistently thinking about building your awareness, educating consumers, and bringing them in long term, you’re not going to have a really sustainable business.”
- “The earlier you start, and the earlier you’re planning, and the earlier you’re planting seeds, the better.”
- “We see the best success when brands actually take that time to build those relationships for the long term.”
Action Steps:
- Focus on one marketing channel before expanding: Trying to do everything at once spreads resources too thin and weakens results.
- Balance bottom-funnel conversions with brand awareness: Building long-term demand ensures you always have new customers entering your pipeline.
- Start planning product launches early: Preparing at least a month in advance allows you to build anticipation and create stronger campaigns.
- Prioritize engagement over follower counts with influencers: Smaller creators with engaged audiences often deliver stronger brand resonance and better results.
- Build long-term influencer relationships instead of one-off posts: Repeated exposure builds familiarity, trust, and stronger connections with audiences.
Sponsor for this episode…
This episode is sponsored by The Missing Ingredient, a food and beverage marketing agency that believes a better future starts with food. They partner with purpose-driven brands to drive growth through smart, results-focused marketing — without the “set it and forget it” approach.
From brand awareness and paid media to content, influencer partnerships, and loyalty programs, they act as true strategic partners invested in your long-term success.
To learn more about how they help food and beverage brands grow with impact, visit themissingingredient.com today.
Powered by Rise25 Podcast Production Company
Full Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
Intro: 00:01
Welcome to The Missing Ingredient podcast with CJ Bruce, where food and beverage founders, operators and experts share the real strategies behind building successful brands. Let’s jump into today’s show.
CJ Bruce: 00:15
Hey, I’m CJ Bruce and welcome to the show. This is the podcast for founders and leaders of high impact food and beverage brands who are serious about scaling. Each episode, I sit down with the people who power the food and beverage industry brand operators, agencies, vendors, creators and retailers to unpack what actually works for brands in the 5 to $100 million range. This episode is sponsored by The Missing Ingredient, a food and beverage marketing agency that believes a better future starts with food. We partner with purpose driven brands to drive growth through smart, results focused marketing, from brand awareness and performance marketing to content influencer partnerships and AI driven workflows.
We act as a true strategic partner invested in your long term success. To learn more about how we help food and beverage brands grow. Visit themissingingredient.com. Today I have Chad Franzen here of Rise25, who has done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we have flipped the script and he will be interviewing me. Chad, welcome to the show.
Common Marketing Mistakes Food Brands Make
Chad Franzen: 01:13
Hey, thanks so much, CJ. Great to talk to you again. Hey, last time we kind of got to got to know you kind of learned, you know, broadly about The Missing Ingredient and what you guys do. And today I thought maybe we’d dive a little bit deeper into, you know, your approach to marketing food and beverages. So tell me, as we get started here, what are maybe three mistakes that you commonly see food brands make in their marketing?
CJ Bruce: 01:38
Great question. We’ll just dive right in. So one of the most common mistakes that we see is trying to do too much at once. So this happened a conversation I had just last week where brand came and they wanted to be everywhere all at once, with all the things. There’s a lot of shiny objects out there, and you feel like you need to do paid media and email and influencers all at the same time.
And really, it’s not the best to spread yourself that thin unless you have the budget and resources to tackle it well. So we think about it in the building blocks. You know, start with what makes the most sense for your brand, where your audience is and the existing resources you have and build from there. So spreading yourself too thin is definitely one of the mistakes. I think another mistake that food and beverage brands will make is focusing too much on the bottom of the funnel.
So bottom of the funnel is important. That’s where you’re getting people to convert and to buy your product. However, and we talked about this a little bit last time you tap out on the bottom of the funnel, there’s only so many people that are in market ready to buy right now. So if you’re not consistently thinking about building your awareness, educating consumers, and bringing them in long term, you’re not going to have a really sustainable business. So focusing too much on the bottom of the funnel as another mistake.
Choosing the Right Marketing Channels
Chad Franzen: 02:49
Sure. So for first timers, is there typically a channel that’s best for them or can it really vary depending on who they are and their history or whatever.
CJ Bruce: 03:00
So there’s usually part of it depends on where you sell your product. And you know, so if you’re a DTC you’re selling on your website, you got to get everything dialed in with your website first. We always recommend getting your email dialed in as well, at least the most basic flows. So you’re capturing emails. You’re communicating with them right away.
You have your abandoned cart, you have your post-purchase. All of that’s set up so that when you start to drive traffic, you already have, you know, the kind of ways to capture and continue to communicate with people. And then beyond that, when you think about social media or paid media or influencers, part of it depends on the brand, the product. So how do you convey the product, the product benefits, right. Who are you?
Who are you targeting with that product? So for example, if it’s younger consumers, more of a Gen Z consumer, then something like TikTok would make more sense to start earlier versus if it’s an older consumer, maybe a Gen X or a boomer consumer. Right? That doesn’t make as much sense to be on TikTok. So thinking about where is your audience?
And then the other piece we think about is, you know, what are the resources, which I mentioned earlier, that you have to actually create content and be on the platform consistently. So if you are already a TikTok native founder and you’re comfortable being on camera and you’re comfortable making that short form video content makes a lot of sense to be on the platform, because you can do it yourself and you’re comfortable being there. If you’re not comfortable on camera, then it’s a matter of sourcing, you know, a creator that’s going to be posting on your behalf, and it just takes more time and energy and budget. Or maybe if you’re a great writer, then communicating via email and building that list and again, it’s a lighter lift for you. You’re more comfortable with that channel.
So we think about those different aspects when we really recommend where brands start.
Common Client Questions and Onboarding Process
Chad Franzen: 04:39
Are there any common questions that new clients have for you when they come and start working with you?
CJ Bruce: 04:47
A lot of common questions. I think the you know, how soon can we get started is a common question, right? What results can we expect to see? How does it work with our team? It’s another question.
You know, I’m often the one who’s having these initial conversations. And so what does it look like beyond the initial conversations. And for that we talk about, you know, we have a dedicated account manager for every client that comes on board. And then we build our team around specialists. And so we have specialists for the different service areas we offer.
So email marketing or paid media. And so the account manager is really the lead. They bring in the specialists to help depending on what the service mix looks like. And then I continue to be involved in more of a senior strategy role, which is also often a question that we get asked in onboarding.
Setting Expectations and Measuring Success
Chad Franzen: 05:30
Is managing expectations. Part of part of your process? I could see maybe I’m thrilled about this new TikTok thing that I just put out there, and it’s been up for five minutes and the phone’s not ringing. What? What’s the problem?
CJ Bruce: 05:44
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a core piece up front and a few. It comes out in a few ways. I think. First is getting alignment on your business objectives.
So sometimes we want more followers. Like, do you really want more followers or are you trying to bring in new customers or are you trying to drive sales at Kroger? Right. What is the actual business objective that you’re trying to achieve? And so we always start with that.
And then from there we back into how can we measure that. Right. Sometimes we can measure it very directly. If you’re talking about follower growth, you’re talking about new email subscribers. We can measure that and optimize for that directly.
If it’s something more indirect, like specific sales at a retailer where you don’t have that data directly to optimize against. We come up with proxy metrics like, well, how do we know that we’re, you know, working toward that goal. And so it could be aligning on, you know, people seeing our ads or engaging with our ads within a certain radius of where you have retail distribution. So aligning on those what the key business outcomes are and then how we’re going to measure those outcomes up front is it sounds simple, but it actually does take some time to really drill it down and get specific. And then from there we can project out estimated results.
And so if it’s brand new, it’s not something you’ve done before. We use that. We estimate results based on benchmarks, past campaigns that we’ve ran. If a brand has run some campaigns and they’re coming to us, maybe they’ve done it in house or with a contractor, we’ll look at the data of what they’ve already run and use that, plus some assumptions around, well, if we get in and we optimize things, how do we expect those results to improve? So we’ll always set targets from the beginning with the client and base those targets on their business outcomes.
Then how can we measure that. So from there we know going in roughly you know, what we can expect. And then very quickly we take that first party data and use that as our new benchmark. Okay. This is what we got.
How can we iterate and improve and what have we learned. And then it’s really that continuous improvement process from there.
Product Launch Mistakes and Planning Strategy
Chad Franzen: 07:37
We talked about mistakes that brands often make in their general approaches to food and marketing. What about during a product launch? Have you seen any common mistakes in that regard?
CJ Bruce: 07:46
Starting too late. So you know your product’s coming out next week. It’s not. It’s too late, right? You need it.
You can obviously do some things around that. But the earlier you start and the earlier you’re planning and the earlier you’re planting seeds, the better. And so this comes in many different ways right. Building a list of people that already know your brand. They’re familiar with your products.
How do you communicate with that known audience. You know, and segmenting those people out. So for that, people who have purchased from you before speak to them in one way. People who are maybe in your orbit that haven’t purchased, but they might be interested in this new product, you want to speak to them in a different way, and it could be a third group of people who, you know, you’re launching a totally new product that’s maybe different type of product. So you had pasta and you’re launching crackers.
That’s going to reach a different audience, a different group of people. So how do you now introduce your brand to those people? And so thinking about all those different touchpoints, planning well ahead for that to be able to, you know, drip and build some anticipation, even reach out to influencers to get them some product ahead of time, to have them then build up some content so that it really feels like a big launch. So I think starting too late is a big piece. And then also, you know, not thinking about the kind of different ways you want to introduce your product to different audience segments would be another key piece that people make a mistake with on new products.
Ideal Timeline for Product Launch Preparation
Chad Franzen: 09:03
So if you had how much time is a good amount of time before a product launch to start thinking about it? Like, what’s the smallest amount of time that you would recommend?
CJ Bruce: 09:12
I’d say a month. If you can get a month out, you’re okay. We have a month before the product’s going to be released and ready to go. That gives you some time to start to again, plant the seed and have some communication. The other things to think about, you know, I think we say a lot with this is don’t create your own false urgency, right?
If you haven’t said anything to anyone, no one’s expecting this product to come out right. Don’t force yourself to hey, well, we have to release it because it’s going to be available on this day when you can maybe buy yourself a little bit more time to again create more assets, have more of a communication plan around the product launch if no one else was waiting for it. Right? You can give yourself some time to really structure it in a smarter way that will have more impact in the long run.
How to Approach Influencer Marketing
Chad Franzen: 09:54
So we talked a little bit about channels and maybe the appropriate ones. What about influencers? That’s always kind of an interesting topic. How should a brand approach working with an influencer and maybe pricing when working with an influencer?
CJ Bruce: 10:08
So the working with an influencer is part of it goes back to starting with your brand, your target audience, and what are the key benefits and usage occasions to that you want to think about with your product? So starting with that, really building out a brief is usually how we start. So what are the key things you want to say? The key audiences you want to reach, how do you want to showcase the product. And then from there you can do research on influencers to then find influencers that are naturally fitting that brief, right?
Whether it’s the audience they’re speaking to, you’re, you know, you’re targeting moms. You can find moms who are influencers who are about healthy snacking for their kids, right? Then that gives you a jump start on who you want to find and how you want to vet them. So that’s the initial piece. And then looking into their follower count.
But more importantly really is their engagement. So oftentimes you know people will see, oh they have a million followers. It seems like they could if they post about my brand, it’ll be this huge success. It’s very rarely the case for many reasons, but one of the reasons is the smaller influencers that are more in that micro influencer, micro to macro size. Right.
So like say 10 to 100,000 followers, they have a much more engaged audience that’s really connecting with them, following what they post, watching what they post. And you’re going to get more resonance with your brand in that market versus someone who say, has a million followers. It’s kind of a broad audience and, you know, who knows how they added those followers and where they came from over time. They’re not as tightly connected with the influencer. So I think that that’s really key because in finding them and then it also connects to your question about pricing, right.
So influencers it’s kind of it’s still the Wild West I would say in terms of pricing. So they, you know, I’ve got this many posts or I mean, I have this many followers, right? I do this kind of content. So I’m going to charge you X amount of dollars. So we always try to go into the performance metrics.
So you’re looking at you know if it’s awareness right. How many videos views are you getting on average for each of your posts that you do over a period of time setting a target cost per view. And that can get you a sense of like, hey, you get this many views. I’m willing to pay this much on a cost per view basis. So I’m going to offer you X amount of dollars or looking at their engagement rate again.
So it’s not just the amount of, you know, your potential reach based on follower count, but actually seeing you. Ultimately, you want to bring people to your brand, to buy your product, to be aware of your product. And so looking for those deeper metrics and using that in negotiating the rates.
Chad Franzen: 12:29
What goes into engagement rate, is it like likes and comments or something like that.
CJ Bruce: 12:34
Yeah, exactly. So likes, comments, shares, saves. To really understand video views we also take into consideration if it’s a video people are actually watching the content. And so you can look at how many followers do they have and then how many of those, you know, cumulative engagements are they getting to determine that engagement rate. So all the engagements divided by their follower count to get a sense of what is their actual engagement rate?
Chad Franzen: 12:57
What role should an influencer play in a long term marketing strategy?
CJ Bruce: 13:02
So this is a thing that we really focus on is ongoing relationships. So we refer to it as influencer relations for a reason. It’s really about building relationships with people. There are creators on the other side. They have their audiences that they build trust with, and we see the best success when brands actually take that time to build those relationships for the long term.
So going and doing a transactional post with an influencer as a one off, you can do that and you might see some success, but the value is really in long term relationships. And that comes out in you think about traditional media metrics when you think about reach and frequency. So it’s one way to think about it, right? If somebody in their feed that follows an influencer sees your brand one time, maybe they remember it, maybe they don’t. Maybe they were just kind of scrolling through.
If they see your brand five times over the span of a few months, they’re much more likely to remember you and much more likely to want to engage with the brand so that reach and frequency. Like, how many people are you reaching in their audience, and how many times are they seeing you helps them to remember your brand. And then the other part is that you get more of a brand understanding with the influencers, so they’re working with you on an ongoing basis. They start to know the brand. They know the do’s and don’ts.
They start to come up with their own ideas. And you really get this collaborative relationship where they know the brand in and out. You understand what kind of content they post and what resonates with their audience. And that’s really where the magic happens. Now you’re co-creating content.
You’re coming up with concepts that will both communicate the key brand points and resonate with the influencer’s audience.
Chad Franzen: 14:35
We’re influencers, even a thing. When you first started.
CJ Bruce: 14:39
Kind of. When I very first started, it was YouTube. And there were, you know, there were YouTubers and that was kind of the beginning for me at least. And so it was very early days and they were trying to figure out, you know, there was like the vlog. So like the daily or weekly video blog type content that people were posting, but it was even more Wild West than it is now.
And that kind of gradually became these multi-channel networks. And there were companies that were managing multiple influencer, multiple YouTubers channels. And then that obviously evolved and expanded into Facebook and Instagram and TikTok. And so it’s a much more evolved and I guess you could say mature industry in some ways. However, it’s still, like I said, there’s still Wild West elements and, you know, the pricing and the quality of the content and how people operate.
So it’s it’s it was barely there, I guess you could say when I started and it’s changed a lot.
Changes in the Digital Marketing Landscape
Chad Franzen: 15:35
What are maybe some other changes that you’ve seen in the media landscape since you started.
CJ Bruce: 15:41
A lot more competition, for sure. So that, you know, in the beginning days, it was a lot of the value proposition was, you know, there’s just white space here, right? You’re on YouTube and Facebook and Instagram as a brand in the early days. And they had a lot more organic reach. You didn’t have to pay as much right to reach your audience.
There’s just less competition. The on the paid ad side, the formats were relatively novel. So you see some, you know, an ad and and Facebook and it’s like, oh, what is this? And people are more likely to engage with it. So now much more competition.
Right. The rates, the ad rates have gone up, CPMs have gone up. People are a lot more jaded. They’re a lot more aware of, you know, what is an ad and what is not an ad. The complexity is significantly higher.
There’s so many different ad formats and platforms. And like we talked about earlier in the common mistakes, right. Where do you start? Where do you focus your time and money. So that’s changed a lot.
And then the sophistication of the tools, I guess, is another one, right? The amount that you can do within ad platforms, the AI integration piece that we talked about last time, and then just the sophistication of the tools and the people that are executing on the tools, that’s really evolved a lot since we started.
Chad Franzen: 16:55
Yeah, I feel like with Google ads, they probably have great power, but I feel like you need an advanced degree to figure out how to set them up effectively.
CJ Bruce: 17:04
Yeah, it gets very complicated. It can get very complicated quickly. And the other piece that’s, you know, that’s changed and you can use Google Ads as an example, is the amount that, you know, AI or machine learning is involved in the process too. So it used to be a lot more manual where you’re, you know, you’re manually. I got to select every keyword I got to, you know, write the copy for every single ad.
And now it’s a lot more dynamic where it’s you’re feeding the system and saying, you know, here are the headlines and here are the descriptions that I want and come up with different combinations that and then see what the results say. Right. See what actually drives those results. And then the you know, I think what’s still complicated and I don’t think there’s great solutions, at least for smaller brands is the multi multi-channel tracking. Right.
Multi-channel attribution. You’re running ads on multiple places and you know, how do you know where people come from and what actually converted. And you know that might be a third mistake. Going back to your first question about how people thinking that you’re going to know exactly what happens at every step of the path just because it’s digital, right? Well, can’t we track every single step of all the things?
And I think it was Google coined the term about the messy middle where it’s like, well, we can’t we can kind of know where it started and we kind of know where it ended. But what happens in the middle, you know, there’s still some assumptions. There’s still some art in there. It’s not perfect science. So that’s, you know, just something else that’s you’re constantly monitoring and trying to deal with.
Evaluating Platform Recommendations and Retail Media
Chad Franzen: 18:32
Yeah. Google Also you know they have these recommendations for you. But I think it takes a little nuance to consider are those recommendations that would benefit you or benefit Google more?
CJ Bruce: 18:44
This is a great topic. This is true of every ad platform.
Chad Franzen: 18:47
Oh yeah.
CJ Bruce: 18:48
It’s something that we deal a lot with. So yeah, Google ads. You go in there, they make a recommendation. Meta. You’ll get hit up by a Meta advertising rep and they’ll make recommendations.
And that’s always the first lens that we go through is is this actually does this make sense for the brand or does it make sense for the platform. And of course, there are some things where it makes sense for both. But very often the case is that they’re trying to sell through something or they’re trying to pump up certain numbers, and the recommendations aren’t specific to you. And it’s true for meta. It’s true for Google.
It’s also true for retail. So retail media networks, right as retail channels come online with, you know, target, Kroger, Albertsons, etc. and they want you to spend ad dollars with them or you’re required to spend ad dollars with them. Oftentimes it’s benefiting the retailer because they’re getting, you know, it’s basically free money for them and they get you as a part of a promotion. But always ask that extra question like, how does this benefit the brand? And is it really tied to our goals and what we want to achieve.
And so that’s something else that we, you know, we often end up helping clients with, especially when there’s required spend, you know, how do you maximize this that benefits your brand both with this specific retailer but also more broadly in helping to drive awareness or drive your business goals?
Marketing Budget Expectations for Growth
Chad Franzen: 20:01
Is there maybe a minimum budget that a brand should have in order to in terms of expecting real results?
CJ Bruce: 20:08
I mean, we like to say, you know, minimum planning would be ten grand a month, like all in budget, like thinking about you’re going to spend $10,000 a month, right? $120,000 a year marketing budget. And that’s, you know, a mix of what would be kind of service fees and pass through expenses on paid media or paid influencers. So that’s again, rough, rough numbers. A better way to think about it is thinking about the channel and thinking about your acquisition numbers, right?
What does it cost for you to acquire a customer? What does it cost for you to sell a product? How many do you need to sell in order to, you know, to break even? How many do you need to sell in order to learn on an ad platform? There’s a certain amount of money that you need to spend to be able to have those learnings quickly enough, and that can get you to a minimum spend from a paid media perspective.
But that’s generally, you know, we think about that, that like ten grand a month. Like have that as a marketing budget, as a baseline. And that gives you enough to test and learn and kind of find paths where you then reinvest and scale.
Chad Franzen: 21:08
You talked about, you know, a mistake can be just targeting the bottom of the funnel. How do you kind of help your clients or brands decide between prioritizing awareness versus direct response?
CJ Bruce: 21:19
So it’s starting with auditing with where they’re at and what they’re doing. So we do generally recommend you get that bottom of the funnel right before you start to drive new people in. So making sure that you’re converting people on your website that you have. You’re getting people to sign up for your email list. Those people are then buying product.
Your product page looks good. You’ve got reviews on the product page. Just some best practices like the bottom of the funnel is solid. You’ve got retargeting ads set up all of those things so that when you do start to drive people in, that you have a more, more likelihood of converting them and the ability to continue to communicate with them over time. So that’s one thing that we generally will look at.
And then you can see over time. So if they, you know, brand comes to us and they’ve been say running ads and they’ve kind of stagnated and they’re, they’re scaling of new customer acquisition or those costs are to tick up. They’re not sure what’s going on. The creatives that we’re converting aren’t converting anymore. Those are kind of signs that you need to start to build that top of funnel.
Like you need to bring more people in so it can be more varied, creative. It could be trying different platforms, different channels with your, you know, with your product and seeing if you can reach new audiences. So those are some of the things that we’ll, you know, we’ll look at and try to figure out where are they at in the overall customer journey and where do they need to, plus some things up in order to drive better results.
Chad Franzen: 22:35
Last question for you. So when I maybe a brand, maybe they just started out, they just started advertising and they’ve spent a lot of money but had haven’t had much return. So then they come to you and they say we just need more sales fast. How do you kind of respond to that?
CJ Bruce: 22:52
If they’ve been running things for a while, then the first thing we want to do is diagnose what’s happening there. Right. Something’s broken in that. And that can be, you know, in the best case scenario, you go in and say, oh, well, you know, the way you’re structuring your campaigns or your creative is limiting your reach, and there’s ways that you can adjust that and make things better. And the worst case, it’s, you know, it’s a more core issue that’s more of a product market fit issue.
Like do you have you found product market fit? Are there people that actually want to buy your product? Right. Are you assuming that they want to buy it or you’re hitting them over the head with the same message, hoping that they’ll buy? So it’s always a red flag.
Honestly, if somebody comes and says like, hey, we need to drive sales fast. We’ve been doing all this stuff. We’ve been working with somebody and like, they’re no good and we’re coming to you to turn things around in the next 30 days. That’s always a red flag. So we’ll be upfront with clients, you know, when they come with something like that.
And if we see those, those issues, we’ll give them some guidance and say, you know, here are things that you need to go ahead and do yourself before you’re ready for us to come in and try to turn some things around or have them just, you know, take a step back and let’s clean some stuff up, fix some some things and then come back at it. Setting yourself up for more long term success versus a quick win.
Closing Remarks
Chad Franzen: 24:03
Okay. Sounds good. Hey always great to talk to you. Very informative and insightful. Thanks so much for having me.
CJ Bruce: 24:10
Thanks, Chad. Appreciate the time.
Chad Franzen: 24:11
So long everybody.
Outro: 24:14
Thanks for listening to The Missing Ingredient podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.